Familiar with Fraud: How to be Scam Aware

Jessica Quindlen: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the Sound Cents Podcast. I'm Jessica Quindlen. Today we've brought back two of our favorites to discuss fraud, all things fraud. We have LaShae Woodard, our VP of Financial Crimes. Hello, LaShae.

LaShae Woodard: Hello.

Jessica Quindlen: And Lisa Zurcher, our Manager of Financial Crimes. Hi, Lisa.

Lisa Zurcher: Hello. Good morning.

Jessica Quindlen: Thank you. All right. So Fraudcast number two. We're just going to dive right in. Lisa, what are some of the latest scams and fraud that people should be aware of?

Lisa Zurcher: Spoofing and smishing and phishing are you know, unfortunately seems like they're here to stay. We haven't seen much change with that, but what's happening is fraudsters will spoof an email or a phone call.

Members think that someone's calling from Ent, or they get an email from Ent, they click a link. The link takes them to a spoofed Ent website. It looks exactly like our main page. They put in all their online banking information. Now the fraudsters have that. They go in, they change email addresses, they change phone [00:01:00] numbers, they set up ACHs, they set up bill pay.

Unfortunately, we've seen a lot of bill pay fraud within the last month or so with these account takeovers. So, we always stress really do not click links. If you have any hesitation, just give us a call through our 800 number so we can determine whether or not we actually did send you a text message about debit card charges or an email or phone call.

One of the most interesting things that's happened in the last couple months is we've had fraudsters reach out to our members from a spoofed phone number asking if they have certain charges on their debit card, which the fraudsters most likely know that the members did not. So the fraudsters say, no, I didn't.

And they said, “Well, we know who has your card information.” They give them a name and they say “we're going to come and we're going to pick up your debit card. put the debit card in the mailbox with your PIN number. We are going to pick that up and we are going to give it to the authorities.”[00:02:00]

And usually, the name that they give them is actually someone that's wanted and possibly in another state.

Jessica Quindlen: Oh, so you can Google.

Lisa Zurcher: Yes, so you can Google. It looks legitimate. And so, we had, unfortunately, had a couple members fall for this, where they gave out their debit card and their PIN number. They came, picked it up, and then, of course, had a field day.

So, Ent will never come pick up a debit card or ask for any of that personal information, PIN numbers, login information, password, nothing. We will never ask for any of that or pick it up. Another one though that we've seen are inheritance scams. So, these are getting pretty good. We had a member convinced that he was getting 84 million dollars as an inheritance.

Jessica Quindlen: Casually.

Lisa Zurcher: From a third cousin that he talked to two years ago. But the interesting thing was these fraudsters spoofed an actual board member with the city of commerce in Canada, one of the provinces in [00:03:00] Canada.

And so he believed he was working with her, that they were going to be getting this money through Canada because that's where his cousin was. And when I called her, the first thing she said was, “Let me let me guess you're calling about an inheritance.” I said, “Wow, you're a mind reader.” And she said, “No, I've been dealing with this for two years now. Unfortunately they've got my name and number. I'm not an attorney. I don't do inheritances. I don't do anything like that. It's a scam.”

And when I let the member know that, he was not convinced. He thought for sure he was getting 84 million and he just needed to send $220,000 to pay for the taxes.

So eventually we were able to talk him down a little bit and let him know we weren't going to be sending the money. But he ended up closing his account ultimately because he wanted to go to another bank that was going to allow him to get the $84 million.

Jessica Quindlen: So, out of curiosity, I know you're both in crimes, but if you get an inheritance, don't they just take [00:04:00] the taxes out of the inheritance?

Okay. Just confirming in case this ever happens.

Yes. Before you get the money. Then you claim it on your taxes when you file taxes. Correct. Because you'll get some kind of tax form from the company that sends you the money.

LaShae Woodard: You can rest assured Uncle Sam will get his bite before you get your bite.

Jessica Quindlen: They're not going to let that slide, especially on 84 million, my goodness. So LaShae, are there any evolving trends or emerging threats in the world of scams that people should be aware of that are coming in the future?

LaShae Woodard: Definitely. I think we've all heard of artificial intelligence where they're able to mimic someone's voice.

You know, in a fraud world, that's not a great thing. We don't want someone to be able to get our members voice and pretend to call us. There are companies that currently do the voice authentication. That would throw a wrench in that.

Another concern would be, as far as our members, with everybody posting on social media, these videos and things like that, [00:05:00] they can capture that person's voice and then call the parent and say, “Hi, mom, I'm in jail in Mexico. I need you to send this money,” because now they've been able to capture your voice.

Your parents, the things that they would go on is. Did it sound like them? Well, of course it will. So that's something people have to be mindful of. We've had cases, you call it the grandparent scam, where they call a grandparent asking for help, saying, “Don't tell my parents, but I need your help. I need you to send money.”

The best way to get around that is to ask something that only your grandchild would know. You know, did you contact your brother? Did you contact your sister? Did you contact your mother? Chances are they may not know the family dynamics in order to be able to answer correctly.

But it would be a scary thought when that's your child calling and they sound scared and you recognize the voice.

Jessica Quindlen: Yeah, absolutely.

That's terrifying. And I certainly know I would easily [00:06:00] fall for something like that. Hearing the voice rather than “Hi, this is Bob from X and X company, etcetera.”

Well, good to know to look out for that. So, Lisa, how can individuals report scams and frauds and what steps should they take if they have fallen victim? If they know that that they've just lost their money, given their information out?

Lisa Zurcher: Yeah, absolutely. They should report any fraudulent activity to any company they have a relationship with. That way, they can just put a little fraud alert maybe on their account. Just something to give that company just a little more information that if someone's calling in, make sure it's that actual person that you're speaking to.

It's always good to file a police report. Even if the loss is minimal, it's good to have it on record that you have unfortunately fallen for a scam. Sometimes even if your loss is minimal, they may have someone else that files the same police report with the same situation, and they can start kind of grouping those together to see if it's a fraud ring that they can start investigating.

Definitely report to the credit bureaus, so put a fraud alert on there. [00:07:00] You can also put a freeze on your credit report if you're more comfortable with that. A fraud alert is a little bit easier if you're trying to get credit that way you don't have to go back and remove the freeze, but either one of those is great.

Filing a complaint with IC3. So that's the internet crimes website. So if you're a victim of some type of internet crime, you can report it there. And then of course the FTC report. We have people make reports there too.

Jessica Quindlen: Great, fantastic. LaShae, what role does social engineering play in scams and how can individuals protect themselves from falling for these manipulative tactics?

LaShae Woodard: Always be careful about giving out personal information. You'll see on social media, they'll play games saying, “Hey, here's a fun way to get to know each other. Where did you grow up? What high school did you go to?” When I see those, I'm like, please don't answer those. That's a great way for someone to find out enough information about you.

Be extra cautious of someone contacting you randomly asking for [00:08:00] help. “Hey, I knew you in high school. I'm about ready to have this horrible thing happen. Can you help me out?” Just be cautious of that.

Always be careful who you meet online or in person. If for any reason they need money right after you begin a relationship, that's a red flag. You meet them online, it's a dating app, and immediately their car broke down, they need rent, or they might need you to give them money in order to get money. So, they assure you you're going to get your money back. That's a big red flag.

Fraudsters are also known to be threatening and they make an issue seem urgent in order to get the funds. They might say, “Well, you have to do this, or this is going to happen. If you don't send this money, I'm going to do this to you.” That's a red flag as well.

Always watch for lottery and inheritance scams. As Lisa mentioned earlier, you don't pay your taxes in advance and it's rare to win a lottery that you [00:09:00] never participated in. Sometimes we'll hear that someone won the lottery in Canada. Were you in Canada? Did you play the lottery in Canada? Chances are you probably aren't going to win something you didn't participate in.

Fraudsters will look up the name of a real person in order to get you to believe their story. As Lisa mentioned earlier, they just googled someone who works for the chamber and this poor lady has been battling this. She can't take down an email that she didn't create, so therefore they can't seem to shut her down. When you look at that person online, it looks legitimate. So you tend to believe that it's really that person. She said she worked for the chamber. I looked her up. She does. Does not mean that that's the actual person that you're talking to.

Jessica Quindlen: Right. It's easy to find people online, use their names. Correct. So, Lisa, let's spin to a more positive angle here. Are there any success stories of individuals who've outsmarted [00:10:00] scammers, and what lessons can we learn from those?

Lisa Zurcher: Yes. Absolutely. Every day. And I will say a huge part of that is our frontline. Our MSRs in the centers are amazing. They can look at these checks. They're really great about asking good questions on, you know, “where did you get this check? Were you expecting the check?” And a lot of times we have really great stops. Every day we have great stops.

You know, sometimes members will come in and say, I sold a car online, they're asking me to send them $3,000 more to pay for shipping, is this right? And we can usually tell them, “No, this is not a good check. Unfortunately it's a scam.”

I think people are becoming more suspicious of checks that they're getting in the mail. Sometimes they will get something they weren't expecting, so they'll come in and say is this legitimate or not. So they are getting good at asking more questions and bringing those in before they just mobile deposit it and then be on their way.

Jessica Quindlen: Good, I love that. I love that so much. LaShae, how can we educate the next generation to be [00:11:00] more scam aware and resilient to fraud activities?

LaShae Woodard: The first thing to remember for anybody, if it seems too good to be true, it's generally too good to be true.

If it seems too easy to make lots of money, that’s a red flag. You know, someone's hiring you to be a personal assistant and you're going to make $500 an hour, that's probably not happening, correct. Otherwise, we'd all be doing that. The main education point is to not click on any links from emails and text messages.

Someone sends you a text and says, “Did you do this?” I never click on that. Even if it's a number known to you, does not mean that that can't be a spoofed number. Always trace it back to the source. Your insurance company sends you something, call your insurance company saying, “I got a text from you. Does this seem legit?” Chances are it's not.

Never give out your debit card to anyone. If they [00:12:00] ask for it over the phone. If your institution is reaching out to you, I don't need to ask you what your debit card number is. I know your debit card number because I work here and that's what I'm calling you about. So that's a big red flag.

The thing to remember from an organization point of view, we don't know your pin number on your debit card. We don't have access to know your pin number on your debit card. We do not have your online banking password. So those are things you should never give to someone who calls.

I'm from the fraud department. I call you I will never need to know your online banking password, nor will I need to know your pin number on your card. That does not help me solve any fraud at all. So, if someone calls you and they say I'm calling you from Ent Credit Union in the fraud department, feel free to say “I appreciate you calling me, Lisa. Can I get your extension [00:13:00] and I'll call you right back?” If we work at Ent, we're going to give you our extension.

You call the number you know to belong to us, which is the (719) 574-1100 or the toll-free number. When it asks for extensions, type in that extension and you will get Lisa.

Jessica Quindlen: Right. I love that. That's great. Anything else to add?

LaShae Woodard: Yep, just want to say you can always check in for any organization you belong to. We have card controls. Get a strange feeling about your card, feel free to go online, block your card, you have that control yourself. You think you may have been scammed; you may have given out your online banking password. Go in there and change your password, you know, be mindful, set up alerts so you can monitor. So, there's a lot of ways for members to be aware of what's going on in case they think fraud may have occurred.

Jessica Quindlen: I love that. Thank you. Well, that brings us to the end of our show. Lisa, LaShae, thanks so much for being here. It was great to have you again. [00:14:00]

Thank you for listening to Sound Cents from Ent Credit Union. Be sure to follow our podcast as well as rate and review us. I'm Jessica Quindlen. I will see you next week. Same time, same place.